[Noam Chomsky is a world-renowned linguist, thinker and columnist for a Protestant. He is Professor of Linguistics at the University of Arizona, USA. Previously, I had been studying at MIT for more than half a century. He is a major critic of the United States foreign policy. I met Kartik Ramanathan Chomsky in a high-tech business in California. He is active and author on issues such as human rights, opposition to war, solidarity with the peoples of Latin America and opposition to religious sectarianism in India. This interview was translated by Mianian Karim.] Kartik Ramanathan: In the activities of the neo-fascist forces and right-wing activists in many countries, many see themselves with a closed mind as part of a specific race or tribe. To what extent do you think these divisions are the result of previous divisions? Noam Chomsky: There are many aspects. Each region has its own story. India is no longer Hungary. It is not the same as the United States.
What is greater than most things in the world is that some social and economic policies have been adopted in America and Europe, especially since the Reagan and Thatcher years. Such as marketing, serving people, undermining the role of the state, transferring resources and controlling the private sector. The result of all this is very clear. People have seen accumulation of wealth and a kind of stagnation. In the United States, only 5% zero decimal of the population now accounts for 20% of the nation’s total wealth. Half of the people in the United States live weekly. The “real wages” situation in this country is that its purchasing power has declined to the level of the last century.
For this reason, the rich class dominated politics. This is very clear in Europe because of the structure of the European Union or the European Union. Unelected bureaucrats in the European Union decide the main problems in Europe, not just the various countries. In addition, German banks are bouncing their throats. They follow Krishna’s policy, which made the policies of neo-liberalism worse. The consequences of all this are widely seen. This is extreme anger, resentment, bitterness, and condemnation of moderate political institutions. This is also seen in the United States. In this case, some people seem. For example, Trump (American), Hungarian (name unclear) or Bolsonaro in Brazil. They want to make this anger true diagnosis. Karthik: We can see that people’s hopes and expectations have been shattered. In recent years I have been interested in playing guitar. Many people have better musical talent than me. But they seem to be fighting.
However, she is gentle and human. This is because the middle class is fragmented, but there is another attempt to preserve the integrity of humanity. I myself belong to the lower middle class in India. My dad is a teacher. India is a very poor country. But the Indian middle class except for the neo-liberal period. This is because this middle class has imposed taxes on power and wealth in the past twenty years. But as you can see, they support the Hindu fascist regime. What’s the reason? Noam Chomsky: I don’t think the middle class has benefited. The real picture shows that they are really stuck. The American economy is the most powerful in the world. But in the past five years, the working class and the bourgeois husband have not benefited from this. They are very angry, and some, like Trump, can abuse this anger. They say: “It is not you, the poor, black people, Latinos, Muslims.” Moody does the same. Look at the extreme Hindu nationalism. (They say) “They take our country. These Muslims must be free from recognition.” Karthik: I can see what’s going on. This is happening in the United States. The situation in India is more complicated. The poor in India are getting poorer. The middle class is still that middle class. Noam Chomsky: It depends on what you mean by “middle class.” I mean middle school teachers. His condition has not improved. However, the high-tech sector made a profit. People involved in engineering have benefited. But millions of farmers in India committed suicide.
The strong accumulation of wealth has automatically reduced the effectiveness of democracy.
His condition is not going well. Karthik: I totally agree with you that the situation in the rural sector is not good. However, there is another sector between engineers and farmers. For example, I said about teachers. Educators in the city and rich country also benefited from the neoliberalism. It is true that they made profits. Because the state and government are getting richer and stronger. Salary increase. Noam Namsky: Has the salary increased 3 years as a real salary? Karthik: I can’t say the amount. But from my own experience, my dad was a teacher in Chennai. Your monthly income can be from 1 to thousands of dollars; that is, 3-5 rupees. Three decades ago, this had not been considered. Noam Chomsky: India is richer than ever. However, the contrast in this country is huge.
Kartik: Of course. I agree that the distinction has increased. No doubt about it. Noam Chomsky: This means that millions of people have been left out. Three million people in India do not have access to clean water. This number is no less. Karthik: The economic situation you are talking about is true. However, one thing I mentioned is that people influence the invaders to say: “Pakistan, Mexico or any other” enemy “is taking away our wealth.” In this case there is a story of ignorance. Because, during Congress in 9 and 5, Congress was at the head of its authority (then Congress was at its height) as an enemy country.
And Kashmir always appears as part of India. So I think the current situation was created for reasons other than economics. Noam Chomsky: I was speaking in India about 5 years ago. I said at a conference on India’s torture in Kashmir after the ridiculous 9-year elections. The next day I was talking somewhere else. Many people from the BJP protested there. Then the meeting organizers insisted that he protect the police. Karthik: It seems I attended, that was one of your first conferences. Perhaps he gave the speech in October or at the end of the month. Remember, after that I had an email conversation with you. Noam Chomsky: What Modi has done in Kashmir, there is great support for the Hindu population. Karthik: Yes. There are reasons behind the economy.
That is, division. Ignorance and propaganda created a division between people. Noam Chomsky: On the one hand, the newspaper’s voice was very restricted. They do not criticize at all. Karthik: As I said in recent interviews, what has been observed in the world is not parallel to Nazism but parallel events happen. What do you say about India? This is because in India, prisoners are created to support millions of Muslims by calling illegal Muslim immigrant citizens. Noam Chomsky: What we are seeing is a symptom of fascism without a fascist example. “Fascism” means a strong state and everything is under the control of a Nazi or fascist party. The party controls even trade and commerce. Not seen in India.
The situation in the United States is the same. We see many signs of fascism here. There are prisoners on the border. You also know about racism. But in the past, the state of Germany was so powerful that it controlled not only the workforce but the state as well. The state controls all organizations. When Trump ordered all companies to leave China, there was a touch of Nazism. Kartik: P Chidambaram is a former Indian Home Minister and Congress politician. As Minister of the Interior, he directed the Kashmir occupation. The atrocities occurred there. Of course, brutality is rampant now. Did you notice this? Noam Chomsky: Congressional records are corrupt on the Kashmir issue. During his rule, Kashmir was subjected to great brutality. Karthik: It is true.
The state is not the regulator of the major companies in that country.
You can also give examples from other countries in the world. The important point is that when Chidambaram dealt with the occupation in Kashmir, it was praised. But the moment the BJP criticized it for the same reason. He said that Kashmir was a prisoner, then imprisoned. This was done despite the fact that there were no charges against him. Noam Chomsky: The complete institutional structure of India, as well as a large portion of the Hindu people, strongly supports the abolition of Kashmir autonomy and paves the way for the Indian settlement there. They don’t seem to know what happens in Kashmir. Karthik: How important is it to establish a good government in a country called India? He needs to support the mass struggle like the Kashmiri struggle.
How important is a government in India that is not moderate, moderate or fascist? How important is there is a government that supports conflicts abroad? Noam Chomsky: The record shows that more liberal governments have supported the movement for freedom and justice in any form and anywhere. They support the struggle for the independence of their enemies, but they do not support the struggle of their appropriate country. Such a government can practice torture and barbarity at will. Right can sometimes be more evil. Let’s say Obama. Look at the refugees fleeing Central America.
The majority of the refugees are from Honduras. Why? Because there was a military coup in 21. This led to the collapse of the reformist president. Despite his condemnation across the continent, Obama and Clinton refused to condemn. Meanwhile, Honduras created such a panic that people fled the country. Karthik: What must be done to support the American people in a movement like the struggle for independence for Kashmir and Palestine? Noam Chomsky: We need massive movements of people, which is difficult. The invasion of Vietnam is the most brutal crime since the Second World War. But it took years for the popular movement to gather against it. For example, Boston is a very liberal city in the United States. Even there, we could not organize mass demonstrations.
Because the opposition demonstrators were afraid to explode. Until 5 years ago it was like this. In those days, Vietnam practically collapsed. Years ago, I had to work, as if I were facing some Indonesian attacks in East Timor. It was one of the most horrific massacres since the Second World War. The United States was supporting her all the time. In the 1990s, Turkey offended and killed the Kurds. This is why almost all weapons came from Clinton. There was no news on this topic and there were no protests. Nobody today knows what happened next. Only two people, one person opposed myself.
The task is not easy. Karthik: I know that by investigating Russia’s interference in the US elections recently, you were opposed to isolating President Trump. In the context of the new situation with Ukraine, do you think there is a lot of tension in the context of President Trump’s political trial on the Democratic Front? Do you now think it’s time for your political experience? Noam Chomsky: No, I do not think so. Take a look at the problems that have been emphasized on the accountability issue. Talking about what crimes have been charged in the political trial sessions? It has been said, “(Trump) is looking for opportunities to accuse the Democrats.” He was attacking the country’s strength. The same thing happened in the “Watergate” scandal. No one noticed the major crime of then-president Nixon. It was said: “The dispersed villains have infiltrated the headquarters of the Democratic Party.” No one was attacked by the mighty. Because they will fight.
To this end, the main crimes are avoided. Karthik: You see, what happens with the Kurds is not a reason to accuse. Noam Chomsky: No, it is not. Trump left the Kurds at the mercy of the Turks. This is why Lindsay Graham and others condemn Trump. They said: “This will lead to a war against the Islamic State.” But they do not care about the Kurds. Karthik: Senator Lindsay Graham (Syria) compares the abandonment of the Kurds to the departure of Iraq. Is this comparison realistic? Noam Chomsky: When Saddam Hussein was attacking the Kurds with chemical weapons, the Reagan administration provided support. The American administration wants to blame the Iranian Kurds.